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I have been deeply contemplating joy myself for a year or so now. After listening to your thought provoking discussion, I found a new idea in my head.

I’m wondering if joy is something elemental and around us all the time - kind of like oxygen is. Our bodies involuntarily notice and draw on/experience the oxygen all the time but our minds don’t unless we choose to notice it (through say mindfulness, breath work, etc) or perhaps we’re forced to notice it (through say a health issue).

So is perhaps joy about us all the time also, but it’s not quite so obviously essential to life (though arguable it is essential to a ‘good life’). Then pursuing joy becomes a matter of bringing our awareness to the already existing joy that is all around us. Perhaps by cultivating techniques such as wonder, awe, curiosity, gratefulness, love, kindness, mindfulness, etc we find ways to connect to the ever-present element of joy.

This idea helps me to understand how it might be possible to experience joy at the same time as experiencing something unpleasant or even tragic.

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